Ma Ju: Najiaying Mosque Protest and Hui Muslims 02

Host:

Can you briefly tell us about the history and origin of the Hui ethnic group, as well as their relationship with the Han ethnic group and the Communist Party?

Ma Ju:

The historical origin of the Hui ethnic group has various interpretations. Within the Hui community, there are self-identifications and beliefs that lack real ethnic verification, and many people believe that they are descendants of Central Asian Arabs who migrated here. For example, do we have any Hui people here? Other than you, there's one person, the one with the big beard. If you look at his appearance, you can see the Arab and Central Asian influence. He looks like the Ukrainians on the battlefield, and there are similarities with Georgians, Azerbaijanis, and Chechen fighters. I also have a long beard, somewhat resembling him. What does this mean? It suggests that there is indeed some ancestral connection. However, when we perform comprehensive DNA tests, I personally did it, and I found that 70% of my genetic makeup is Mongolian. I believe the majority of people today have Mongolian ancestry. Some Chinese are of southern descent, but they belong to the Malaya race. This is not to say that we are descendants of Mongolians, but rather that there is a distinction between the Mongol and Malaya races. The concept of bloodlines defining ethnicity is actually a joke; it's a ridiculous thing.

The establishment of the Hui ethnic group in China happened in 1953; before that, there was no such ethnic group. In the past, during the Qing Dynasty, the Han, Manchu, Mongol, and Hui ethnic groups were referred to as "Man, Han, Mongol, Hui, and Tibetan." The term "Hui" referred to the Hui people in Xinjiang. Why were Uighurs called Hui people? It's because China referred to Islam as "Hui Jiao" (Hui religion). Sun Yat-sen once said, "In China, there are many people who believe in Hui Jiao (Islam), but they all belong to China." What he meant was that although there are many Muslims in this land, they are also part of our nation. This was a way of categorizing the provinces in Han China. At that time, Sun Yat-sen's core idea was about Han nationalism, not the concept of modern-day China; there was no such concept then.

By 1953, with the help of the Soviet Union's ethnic identification methods, the name "Hui" was officially assigned to this ethnic group. Some Hui people believe that the Communist Party used this approach to tie a religion to an ethnic group, making people who do not believe in Islam think that only those belonging to that ethnic group can believe in this religion. This is how most people on China's land view it today. They think that only Hui people believe in Islam, and it has nothing to do with them. This isolation sometimes occurs based on religious boundaries, and sometimes based on ethnic boundaries. Islam is practiced by people of various races and ethnicities worldwide, so why in China does it appear to be limited to just one group? For instance, there is a group of Hui Muslims in China, near the border of Yunnan and Guangxi, who passed away recently. In the past, they could be buried in the ground, as you all know, that's how Muslims are buried. Now, the policy has changed, and they are no longer allowed to be buried in the ground; they have to be cremated. The reason given is that they are Zhuang, and they are not allowed to have earth burials. Why is it now prohibited when it was allowed in the past? They say the previous policy was wrong, and the new one must be followed. You see what I mean? It's an interesting situation.

The relationship between the Hui people and the Communist Party is actually quite complicated. The Communist Party, when they were escaping and passing through the snowy mountains and grasslands, settled in the northern part of Shaanxi Province. There was an important situation that many people may not have noticed. The enemy the Communist Party faced was Hu Zongnan's army in Xi'an, the Northwest Anti-Banditry Commander's base. However, what you may not have noticed is that the other military forces that formed a pincer attack on the Communist Party were all Muslim military forces.

Another army was led by Ma Hongkui, one of the three famous "Ma" of Northwest China. He was from Yanchi County, which is now located in the northern part of Shaanxi, near the border with Ningxia. This region is famous for its delicious lamb dishes. Ma Hongkui's influence extended from the north to Baotou, where there were also Hui Muslim armies. In the west, in Ningxia, as well as in places like Dabancheng in Gansu, which is known today as Dangchang County, Mao started his journey. From there, he crossed the Iron Ruler Bridge and passed through Debu County in Gansu, entering Ha'dapu. After resting for several months in Ha'dapu, they continued their journey through Baliqiao, then through Wushan, and finally reached Huining, which had a Hui Muslim community. The route continued through Liupan Mountain, and during this entire journey, the Communist Party did not encounter any enemies because the Eastern Route Traffic Commander, whose surname was Ma, was a Hui Muslim. He allowed the Communist forces to pass freely.

Eventually, they reached the West Hexi region and then advanced further north. In Gansu's Jingning County, Mao Zedong issued a proclamation about the land reform policy. He declared that the Communist Party would not implement land reform in areas inhabited by Hui Muslims and that the land would not be seized from them. This demonstrated a united front between the Communist Party and the Hui Muslim community. They continued to advance northward and eventually reached Shaanxi. There, Mao Zedong issued a declaration advocating for the independence of the Hui people, aiming to establish a separate Hui state or Islamic state. This proposed Hui state would include the areas of Pingliang in Gansu, as well as all of Ningxia, except for Qingyang in Gansu. It also included a part of Inner Mongolia and the Huanghai area in today's Qinghai, where there were many Hui Muslims.

During that period, the relationship between Islam and the Communist Party was relatively good because, in the 1920s and after 1911, there were many ethnic conflicts in China's interior, primarily involving Manchu people. Many Manchus changed their surnames to Han and even changed their ethnicity. In this process, the two main forces in conflict were the Manchu people and the Muslims. In 1870, both the Communist Party and the Qing Dynasty suppressed the rebellion known as "Hui Rebellion," which occurred in Shanxi and involved widespread ethnic conflict. During this time, it was said that around 20 million Han people were killed, but it's important to note that the population in Shanxi was not that large at the time. Therefore, some of the claims made about historical events may not be accurate.

In the 1920s, the Nationalist Party (Kuomintang) implemented a policy of "one party, one program, one leader," which some referred to as the basis of fascism. This policy was not favored by Muslims due to their different religious beliefs, and they strongly opposed the Nationalist government in Nanjing. The three famous "Ma" in Northwest China are often associated with representing Muslims, but Ma Hongkui, for example, was not solely a representative of the Muslim community. He was a prominent supporter of the central government's unification efforts and his family had a history of supporting such efforts. The relationship between the Hui Muslims and the Communist Party was more complex than it might seem, and it involved various policies and political dynamics. When the autonomous regions were established in the 1950s, Liu, a Hui Muslim from Hebei and an early Communist Party member, became the first Chairman of Ningxia.

Then this person proposed a plan, which was the grand autonomous region for the Hui people that Mao Zedong had promised. However, Mao Zedong made numerous revisions to the plan until it was reduced to what we have today as the smallest autonomous region in the country - Ningxia. Interestingly, the Hui population in Ningxia is the smallest and least concentrated. Do you know where the most concentrated Hui population resides? It is in Gansu, TianShui, Ningxia, and Huangzhong in Qinghai, and other areas. These are the main gathering areas for the Hui people in China. But the Communist Party only carved out a small piece for them because in the northern region of Ningxia, especially in Shijingshan, there are very few Hui Muslims, including in Yinchuan.

The Hui Muslim population is more concentrated in areas such as Wuzhong and the Western Helan Mountain region, with the latter being the most concentrated. So, the carving out of Ningxia as an autonomous region is quite absurd and not in line with traditional locations of Hui communities. Nevertheless, the Communist Party had already gained power by 1958 and allowed Ningxia to become an autonomous region. However, in 1958, another event took place. It was the Qingdao Ethnic and Religious Work Conference, held by Li Weihan, in charge of ethnic policies, and a Hui Muslim named Yang Jingren. The two of them held this conference in Qingdao, Shandong. This conference resulted in the complete massacre of the social elites among the Hui Muslim community. My grandfather was imprisoned in 1958 and went through hardships from 1958 to 1963. When he was released, he was sent to a study class. How did he survive? Because he had some standing in religion, many people gave him a little more food each day, allowing him to live. He lived, and two other people also survived, but many people died during that time.

Throughout the entire decade, my father was arrested multiple times since he was considered to be a descendant of "evil spirits." It was absurd. He was arrested, released, arrested again, and then he escaped by changing his name. In the 1980s, a new phenomenon emerged: the discontinuity of the Hui Muslim community's intellectuals. There were hardly any left who could read the Quran. So, the Communist Party established the Islamic Academy and began to train Imams (Islamic religious leaders). However, after decades of persecution by the Communist Party, people could not trust those who graduated from the academy. People refused to accept them. Graduates from the Islamic Academy would enter organizations like the United Front Work Department, the Religious Affairs Bureau, or serve as religious advisers in various Arab and Islamic countries' embassies.

In this situation, how did the Muslim community face these issues? They began to send students to study abroad. Initially, they learned from each other internally. For instance, if someone knew Arabic, they would teach others, and vice versa. However, they soon realized that internal learning was not sufficient, so they started sending students to Arab countries to study. Let me tell you an interesting fact about Arab countries: in 1953, they implemented a policy of providing free education to all students, regardless of nationality. The country covered everything from kindergarten to Ph.D., including textbooks and accommodation. This is why many people from mainland China went to study there, and it was free of charge. Nonetheless, there was one catch: the Communist Party controlled the passports. During that time, passport application was difficult, and getting a passport in the 1980s was extremely challenging. When I left China in 1990, it took tremendous effort to obtain my passport. Finally, a provincial-level official had to sign a document to grant us the passport. However, despite the difficulty, the process was at least fair. However, in the late 1990s, especially after the Yili Uprising incident, China began to make it challenging for ethnic minorities, especially the Hui, Uighur, and Kazakh people, to obtain passports. They were not allowed to leave the country, making it difficult to acquire a passport. This policy has been enforced since 1997 and continues to this day. This is a brief overview of the first question. Each question is quite complex, and my responses may be verbose, but I want to provide you with a comprehensive understanding.

Host:

Let me broaden the previous question a bit. Could you talk about the historical and logical aspects of China's stability maintenance actions? We mentioned two important benchmarks - the July 5 incident in 2009 and the March 14 incident. Can you use these examples, along with other less significant benchmarks, to discuss the topic of stability maintenance?

Ma Ju:

Regarding stability maintenance, we all know about the so-called crackdown on Uighurs in China, which most people associate with the events after July 5, 2009. However, the reality is that it began after the July 5 incident. If you only consider that as a reference point, you might only understand about 30-40% of the situation. In fact, I'd like to provide some other perspectives because you can find various opinions and data online.

Let's first explore the concept of autonomy in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region. According to China's Regional Ethnic Autonomy Law, autonomy grants the local population absolute rights to distribute and manage local economy, politics, internal security, law, mineral resources, and means of production. This is the foundation. Under this background, let's consider why Uighurs joined China in the first place. It was to enjoy the same treatment as the Soviet Union's affiliated republics. This was part of the agreement reached between the Soviet Union's Stalin and the Chinese Communist Party and the basis for the agreements made with the elite Uighurs during the Three Districts Revolution.

However, we know what happened to the elite Uighurs - they all died, and nobody knows if it was an airplane accident or something else. Let's not focus on that, but rather on whether the Communist Party implemented autonomy. The situation today is similar to Australia's protection of its ethnic minorities. The US is different in this regard. I mentioned that this is mainly due to the majority population in Australia being white, which makes them more accommodating. However, in Xinjiang, there were 450,000 Han Chinese, and approximately the same number of Uighurs. Over the decades, the Han Chinese population has grown, and now they are only a few hundred thousand fewer than the Uighurs.

So, where did these ten million people go? (Audience: "The Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps.") What is the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps? It's a form of military colonization, similar to the recent news about Israel establishing settlements in the West Bank, and those settlers carry guns. They kill two Palestinians and label them as terrorists. But those Palestinians can produce evidence to claim that the land belongs to them. The same applies to the Uighurs. There's a self-deprecating joke among the Uighurs. When the Russians (Heidaye) came, they went up to the mountains. That's how they referred to the Russians. It means when the Russians came, they had to hide. At the beginning, Uighurs lived in many oases. Everyone knows oases are good places to live. However, when Han Chinese arrived, the oases slowly became no longer Uighur territory. Wherever the Han Chinese went, Uighurs had to leave.

Today, the Uighurs no longer live in oases but in desert areas. Similarly, the Kazakhs no longer live on grasslands but in various remote places. I'm not saying that Han Chinese immigrants have caused the loss of the local people; rather, I'm talking about the systematic occupation arranged by the government. Their homeland is continually being occupied. Any resistance or accumulation of grievances over the decades eventually led to this situation. Just like when white Americans see Asians, Black people, or Latinos all over the world, their instinct of self-protection arises, and you get Trumpism. It's the same in reality. Uighurs also have the right to protect themselves, especially in their autonomous region, which produces oil and natural gas.

Here's a surprising piece of information I learned after returning to China in 2000. In 2001, a Uighur official told me that they pay 4 RMB for one cubic meter of natural gas, while in Shanghai, it's only 1.2 RMB. I asked about Lanzhou, and someone told me it was 1.6 RMB, even more expensive than Shanghai. But I'm from a poor province, Gansu, where the government couldn't afford subsidies, so we had to pay the full price. We clearly see that Uighurs are being marginalized daily, and their culture is being discriminated against. What should they do in such a situation?

Once, I went to a place called Altay, inhabited by Uighurs, and I met a person who had lived there for 40 years, though he was originally from Henan. He invited me for dinner at a Kazakh restaurant. The restaurant owner, a Kazakh, came in, and we greeted each other using the Arabic greeting "As-Salamu Alaykum." The owner immediately hugged me, and we acted like old friends. The man I met was surprised and asked how we knew each other. I said we didn't, and the restaurant owner explained that I greeted him in their way. The man then said, "How do you usually greet them? I've never heard that." This person had lived there for 40 years and didn't even know how to say "hello" in their language. Yet, he used offensive words like "retarded" to describe them. It's like being in America, not knowing how to speak English and calling Americans ignorant - it's absurd.

It's because they refuse to accept that from the beginning, they were occupying someone else's land. During gatherings, many people in Xinjiang say, "Xinjiang is ours," and they clink glasses. This might seem a bit off-topic from the question the host raised, but it's essential to understand these basic facts. We must approach the current situation from the perspective of Uighurs. If we only view it from our own perspective, we might get different answers. Therefore, our purpose here is to listen to a different voice and understand what we take for granted.

Host:

Now, I have another question, and then we'll open the floor for questions. This question comes from an audience member. They want to know if there are different attitudes towards the Chinese Communist Party within the Hui community. What are the reasons for these differences? Building upon that, China's government has been increasingly expanding its presence in the Middle East, including Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and, as you mentioned earlier, the Egyptian help in arresting students for the Chinese government. Given the Communist Party's oppression of Hui Muslims, how do you view its actions and behavior in other Muslim countries?

Ma Ju:

Regarding the Hui community's view of the Chinese Communist Party, we must consider one crucial point. Besides their Islamic faith, the majority of Hui people share the same values as the Han Chinese. When I'm among your group, you won't even feel that I am a Hui person. You won't notice it, even when I speak Mandarin, although I only studied in China for three years, and I honestly don't know many Chinese characters. I want to tell you that, in other aspects, there is no difference between us. How the Han Chinese view the Communist Party is how the Hui people view it as well. However, there is one thing that Hui people have never believed in - the Communist Party's atheism. We are different in this regard. But when it comes to various practical matters, such as attending meetings related to ethnic policies or urban development, Hui people are just like ordinary Han Chinese, with no difference. Nevertheless, we all fundamentally know not to trust the government's words. We want to live in peace, with religious freedom being our only requirement. The only demand of Hui people is religious freedom.

If you observe, you'll see that Hui people outnumber Uighurs today, and there's not a single call for independence among the Hui community. Do you know why? It's because Hui people have a unique characteristic - they only pursue religious freedom and never seek territorial ownership. Many Hui people actually have Han Chinese ancestors who converted to Islam, contrary to what some Hui people claim. As for me, I've done my DNA test, and my Central Asian and Arabian ancestry is even lower than that of the average Han Chinese. So, the notion of bloodline is ridiculous. The perspectives of Hui and Han Chinese towards the situation are the same.

Now, let's talk about China's good relations with Muslim countries. We see that not only do they not oppose the concentration camps in Xinjiang, but they also support China's policies there. This might be difficult for some to understand. But the answer is straightforward. All Muslim countries in the Arab world know that the Uighurs are facing genocide, and China is demolishing mosques. We know that in the Islamic world, there are hardly more than three truly democratic and non-dictatorial countries. Turkey counts as half, and Bosnia counts as one. There's also Tunisia, which someone from the audience mentioned. As for Malaysia, it's complicated; I'll explain it separately later. Each country is different. Apart from these, all others are dictatorships and monarchies. What do these rulers fear the most? Losing their power. These countries are all weak, and their biggest enemy is their own people, just like it is for the Chinese Communist Party - the biggest enemy is their own citizens. Their second biggest enemy is the same as China's - the United States, democracy, and freedom. You understand now. When faced with these concerns, killing a few Muslims here and there means nothing. They can kill a few without any concern. However, the people are different. I've met and known more Arabs than Chinese because I've spent half of my life living in the Arab world. Until now, I haven't met a single person who doesn't support the Uighurs or condemns the Chinese government. They all criticize it. Moreover, many have initiated actions like boycotting Chinese products as a form of protest.

Just like the recent Russian invasion of Ukraine, that's an indisputable fact. Many countries, including India, are speculating and supporting Russia for their interests. Let me tell you, one reason why dictatorships support Putin is that if he fails, and Russia collapses, there will be one less dictator in the world, weakening the strength of rogue regimes. They are like locusts on the same rope, and what they fear the most is the wave of democracy. If Russia falls, centralized power will collapse, meaning a great victory for democracy. This victory will eventually lead to the collapse of countries like Iran. Look, recently, both Saudi Arabia and Iran have de-escalated. Why? China says they are responsible for that; it's a joke.

Let me provide you with another piece of information. Many people think Arabs are stupid and ignorant. I tell you, never think like that. Arabs don't produce anything, but they have everything. I worked as an advisor for a sovereign wealth fund company near Penn Station last year. After working there for a year, I realized that the bosses behind the Jews controlling Manhattan's major real estate developments were all Arabs. Almost all the new iconic buildings in Manhattan are owned by Arabs. It's true. Just think about one thing; what does the Arabian Peninsula produce? Sand, before oil. They also have camels, and they have everything. Arabs are masters of geopolitics and trade. The US and other countries fell into their trap repeatedly. They go in once and lose big time. England goes in once and loses big time. France goes in once and loses big time. India goes in once and loses big time. Russia goes in once and loses big time. Don't underestimate Arabs; they always come out unscathed, while you bear the loss and they reap the benefits. So, remember this - when China gets involved with Arab countries, it's only a matter of China gaining some advantages for now. Don't think that China can take advantage of the Arab world easily. It won't, and remember this point.

Mu Rong Xue Cun.

I have two questions. I remember there was a big discussion on Twitter almost a year ago, initiated by Mr. Teng Biao, about the fact that Uyghurs, as opposed to Ethnic Han, actually have some kind of privilege. The word "privilege" translates as "privilege", but maybe it's more appropriate to translate it as "favored". May I ask you, do you think the Han Chinese, from your point of view, do the Han Chinese have a privilege? If so, what are the specific aspects of it? This is the first question. The second question is a simple question that I ask every writer and scholar I meet from other countries and other languages: What is your favorite word? How do you say it? What does it mean? In Arabic, since you're an expert in Arabic, what's your favorite word? What does it mean? Thank you. - Thank you.

Ma Ju:

So about this so-called Chinese Han Chinese being white in Chinese society, it's got something to do with her, it's got something to do with your friend Ashley.  Ashley, is friend in Germany. So the two of us had a little room at the Clubhouse one day, and we were discussing whether or not we should be thinking about who the white people are in Chinese society after the BLM movement in the United States. Because for a lot of Han Chinese, the main body of the society, they think that ethnic minorities enjoy two less and one more lenient policy, they are less prosecuted for breaking the law, and then they are the Ministry of Family Planning, and they are given extra points in the college entrance exams, and a lot of people think that the ethnic minorities are being treated favorably. As an ethnic minority, I can say that from my point of view or from the point of view of the vast majority of people, I have never been treated favorably. Let me give you two simple examples. In the 1980s, the Hui minority was given a meat subsidy. What is a meat subsidy? It means that each person was given 10 pounds of low-priced meat every year. If it was five dollars on the market, it was about three dollars a catty when you bought it. Give you a meat stamp subsidy, or what is it? Just give you 30 bucks a year. A lot of people around us said, "You guys are taking advantage of it. Thirty dollars a year for a person was a lot of money back then. At that time, many people's salaries were only 18 or 28 dollars. We all thought it was a lot of money, didn't we? I always thought it was preferential treatment, and so did I. But later, when I studied economics, I realized that it was not preferential treatment. Why isn't it preferential treatment? In 1949, my grandfather had a few cows and dozens of sheep in a meadow, and what did he do? What did my grandfather do? He gave milk, goat's milk, to pregnant women and so on. For children, babies, the elderly. In the '50s, when the country was liberated, the public-private partnership confiscated the cows, the sheep, and the meadow. My grandfather was paid a monthly salary, and he became a worker in the cattle factory. Okay, so in the '80s, when they started subsidizing meat, did they subsidize meat for those who ate pork? No. But you know that up to today, the Communist Party subsidizes all pork. Do you know this?  The Chinese government subsidizes feed for pig farms. Pork is subsidized, vaccinated. So pork is a strategic commodity, and it's been subsidized since the 1950s, when the national reserve was established. Have beef and lamb ever been subsidized? No, never. You didn't know there were subsidies when you were enjoying these things. And you see we're being paid, we're subsidized. You'll see when pork is cheaper than lamb or beef? If you think about it in that way, you don't call it a subsidy, you don't call it taking care of you. Just like the college entrance examination, for Uyghurs, Mongolians, Tibetans, who have their own language, their mother tongue is different from yours, and my mother tongue is not Chinese, my mother tongue is called "Xiao Er Jing" in Hui dialect. My mother tongue is not Chinese either. My mother tongue is Hui, which is called "Little Children's Sutra". No one in our family can understand what we say. We're not allowed to create languages. Those who did were shot by the Communists. You don't know, when I take the exam, you use your mother tongue, what do I use? Your language. If you take the exam in my language, I'll give you extra points. You take the exam in Uyghur, I'll give you extra points. If you take the exam in Mongolian, I'll give you extra points. Is that unfair? And if I go to your university in China to be influenced by your ideas and to learn your culture, do you subsidize foreign students more, or do you subsidize the ethnic minorities in China to go to your university? I'm asking you. Even when you take an American Passport and you go to China to apply for a university, it's much easier for you than it is for a Chinese , right? Is it easier for Americans, or is it easier for Chinese citizens to be minorities? Is this called care? And the meat subsidies that I just mentioned, you guys eat pork every day or something like that, you're already enjoying the subsidies you don't know. You don't know that you're already enjoying the subsidy. You see that these people have to pay 70 yuan and 80 yuan for a kilogram of beef and mutton, and you pay 20 yuan for a kilogram of pork, and you don't calculate the difference. Because we as human beings, you always have to take meat protein, you also have to take meat protein. The price of your protein, the price of your meat protein intake, compared to mine is 30 bucks a kilo, give me a subsidy. Give me a subsidy of 3 dollars a month on commoditization, who's taking advantage of that? A lot of times we have misconceptions or misunderstandings or we don't realize that we're enjoying a lot of things, like a lot of people in the United States, he's denouncing the white left every day, he's denouncing welfare, he's denouncing this and he's denouncing that and he doesn't realize that he's enjoying himself. A friend of mine asked me the other day, "Why don't I see any welfare in America? I said America's welfare is so big you can't see it. I told him, he's a businessman. I said that the United States has the most advanced dollar in the world, and as long as you are in the United States, you are enjoying, you are in New York, you are enjoying the best financial services in the world and the most abundant capital in the world. If you've got the skills, if you've got a good program, the money will come after you. You enjoy in the United States a spirit of contract that you can't imagine having in China. You're here enjoying the fact that you have private property that no one has the ability to take away from you. But these things and the freedom of speech, when you don't look, you don't see. I'd like to send this to those who think they're not white Chinese. You should also realize that you enjoy a lot of things that you can't see. And in today's world you enjoy what minorities would consider a luxury, you know what luxury? You go abroad to get your passports, you go there to get them. Our eight generations of censorship, no way. If you want to leave the country, you'll have to get on the border control list, except if you piss off the Communists. If we want to cross China, we have to go through three hurdles: the police station, the Foreign Affairs Bureau, the passport and the border crossing. Every Muslim in China is terrified when he has to leave the country. Except for a few local Muslims who are not so scared, the ones in Beijing, the ones in Shanghai, and the local ones in Guangzhou, it's the same for all of them. The last time my children went back to China was in 2016. I was afraid to go back, so they went back. I got off the Kunming train station in 2016, my daughter was seven and my son was nine, and the two of them, as soon as they got off the plane, the Chinese police took them, took my wife, and put the three of them in three rooms at three distances from each other. And they examined them and asked them, "Son, where's your father?" They asked my daughter, "What time does your father usually come home at night? Who does your dad see?" Asked a seven-year-old girl. My mom goes out, what's the first thing the police say? What's the first thing the border control says? "Wipe off that hijab." And every time she left the country with the Muslim hijab, my mother had to wipe it off in tears of humiliation. A lot of people think it doesn't matter if the hijab is wiped off, but for some people of faith, it's like asking the priest to wipe it off, asking the nuns to wipe it off, and as much as the nuns are hurting, as much as they're hurting, every single time. You're like that kind of thing, and you guys don't see it. The Han Chinese also have no freedom, no freedom of speech, we have no freedom of action. The Tibetan people don't have the ability to go to Lhasa, you guys can go anytime you want. You can go to the mosque in Kashgar at any time, you can go to any place of Islam at any time, not the Việt Nam people, not the Hui people. Of course you can say, you have the right to go to the temple, the Communist Party welcomes you. So there are a lot of things that nobody speaks out, not nobody speaks out, somebody speaks out, it's the Communist Party that doesn't want you to hear it. I think it's like a lot of white Americans in the United States, they don't even realize that they have privileges, and that's a situation. Because what is the word you just said that I recommend the most? Actually, it's a word that I recite countless times a day (in non-Chinese) What does it mean? We all know that we have a Muhammad called Mohamed, and his name is M. His name is actually Mohamed. What is his name actually called (non-Chinese) is what? Gratitude. What does this Mohamed mean? He was a grateful man. What is the most common Muslim saying? I praise the Creator. And also, for example, if you help me, if you look at Islam, you'll see that he's a person who is always thankful. If you know an Arab friend and you ask him what is the most important thing you say? What would he say? It's to give you good, it's to give you goodness, and that's what they say the most (in non-Chinese). That's it. The most I say is gratitude. So even though we are facing a lot of pressure, a lot of different things. Because what a lot of people don't understand about Muslims is that we've just gone through a 20-year war on terror. Every one of us is being scrutinized by governments all over the world, are you a terrorist? And I believe that the Chinese are going to be more accepted in the United States and the West in the future. Because you're seeing this online right-wing swell. Zhang Jiadong (ph) tweeted yesterday, and after I read it, I think it's a growing risk. People are saying that the U.S. government is ignoring a major danger, that China has sent countless people to infiltrate the U.S. to talk about people who are walking the line. And this winds up I found that tweet of his that a lot of people are retweeting. And group after group of people on the far right are compiling a fifth column that has moved in. And you look like he's cracking down on the communists or what have you, when in fact people have to remember that he's targeting you first and foremost you you you you you you, everybody. Yesterday a guy on Twitter asked me, more or less with a little bit of questioning, and Badukusa wrote something that said, "I feel bad for this guy for questioning Maju like this." And my response to him was something like, I was born in a time when I couldn't even speak, I was a class enemy, and I was fleeing incognito, and it was only at the age of ten that I was able to return and start getting ready for school. The school didn't want me, and it's been a perfect experience of the whole war on terror. A perfect experience of Chinese nationalism, of Communist Party learning. For people like me, with problems like this, with things like this, it's really nothing. But for a lot of people, it's too much. What I want to tell you is that every other person's suffering is our suffering. Are there any white people in China? Yes. But this white man is not white, and that's a very tragic thing.

It's connected to us. In the early days of Islam, what did Muhammad advocate when he was in Mecca? I'll tell you what he advocated, he advocated the restoration of monotheism. What was he trying to overthrow in Mecca? It's the fact that each clan puts up a statue of him and says this is God. People are selling God there. And what was there before the Arabian Peninsula? It was monotheism, it was Christianity. People were following Jesus or Moses, the Jews and the Christians. That was the situation in Mecca at that time. But then the gods kept manifesting themselves, the rise of the clans, the rise of the tribes. And that drove out these monotheistic religions. Because at that time, Mecca was basically the most remote area of the monotheistic-centered Holy See, and there were no canals, no transportation, and you had to cross the desert. So basically, there was no one there to take care of it. And when it came to that area, Christianity got a little bit twisted, and it was already very much twisted from what Rome was saying about Jerusalem, and it was just very much unlike that. It's basically a sheep's head for a dog's meat, and that's basically what happened. And Muhammad, there's a mountain in Mecca called the Mountain of Light, and he was there in the process of enlightenment, and he had a revelation. He was enlightened. There's a chapter in the Koran called "The Quilted Man". The Quilted Man. You can look it up sometimes, and you'll see that it's a very interesting story in Islam. One day he was in a cave and suddenly he heard a man talking to him, and the first thing he said was (in Arabic), and this is the first verse in the Qur'an. What does it mean? Man was created by a blood clot, and I created you in your mother's womb, and the first thing you were formed into was a blood clot, and this chapter is called the chapter of the blood clot. You can look it up. When the holy man Muhammad heard this, he said, "The devil is talking to me, I may be possessed." And he ran down from the mountain of light in a cold sweat. Runs to his house, he's shaking, shivering, cold. It was hot in Mecca, but he was cold and shivering. His wife tucked him in, and that's when he heard the Qur'anic verse about the man who tucked in. What is the meaning of this story? Muhammad was a man who was afraid. He sometimes heard the truth and he thought it was the devil, which means he was a human being, and that's a very important thing. And then the Qur'an goes down to him paragraph by paragraph, and slowly he realizes that it's not the devil. And he starts talking to the angel, "Who are you?" "I'm Gabriel." That's the same archangel that Jesus Christ had, that our Moses had. So Gabriel starts talking to him, and he asks questions, and Gabriel relates to him. He didn't know a lot of things. And he asked, "Why are there so many things going on in our place today? Why don't we have the means to fight it?" He said, "It is because mankind is blind to the truth." "But why can't Allah make each one of us so powerful? Why doesn't He make all of us follow the right path when He has so much power?" "Allah chooses some of you, and the path is yours, and you will be tested in this life and choose the right path." Muhammad said, "Why can't Allah, who is so powerful on this earth, make everyone believe in the same religion, and wouldn't that be easy?" Gabriel said, "The Creator has made the earth a place where there are different religions, so that you can refer to them and choose the best path." This is Islam. There are many people who say that Islam excludes other religions, but the scriptures of Islam clearly tell us that there is no exclusion, and that the existence of all religions is God's will, and you cannot go against it. That's why some people say that Islam only tolerates Islam. I've been living for decades and I've never heard of Arabs demanding that others must believe the same as they do. So why do people have such a perception? It actually has to do with propaganda and so-called anti-terrorism. So the reason for this is to show you the social context and the religion of Islam at the time of its creation. What was the reality? As well as the fact that Islam, in academic terms, Islamists consider Christianity to be an updated version of Judaism, what is the only religious conflict between Islam and Christianity? It's that we know that Christianity believes that Jesus is one of our saints, that we actually pray for Jesus, and that he's a man and not a god. And that includes Adam, and all these people are human beings, just like you and me, and not God. They all make the mistake of calling him a part of God, and therein lies the difference between the Koran and the core teachings of Christianity. So you say you've copied a third of it, but in fact I can say it's exactly the same. When I read the Bible and the Qur'an, I often read them both with reference to each other, so that I can cross time and space and history. Like I'm a student of the history of religions, I'm also a student of comparative religion. We read the Bible verses and the Qur'an all the time. I have several books of the Bible on this quilt at the foot of my bed, and sometimes the Bible is pressed on top of the Koran. When the Muslims saw this, they said, "How can you do that? You're crazy." So what is a Muslim? For Christians, it's called people of the scriptures, and it's called (in Arabic) that they are people of the scriptures. What does that mean? It's not that he has a scripture in Chinese, no, it's that he has the same scripture that I have. There are a lot of people translating this Arabic who don't actually understand it. Arabic is a very complex language called (Arabic), and the direct translation is called the one who has a scripture, but in fact it is he who has our scripture. So there is a clear chapter in the Muslim Quran that says what? It says that when you need trust, trust those who claim to be Christians. They are your best friends. And you know the story, I'll tell you, that when Muhammad died, at the very last moment, this inheritor of his, called the governor of the Muslims, said, "Where shall I bury you?" "Bury me in Medina." "Not in Mecca?" "You put me in this city." "And is there a lady to be left beside you?" "No, this place beside me, the one who will be with me after I die is who we are waiting for? (Arabic) It's Moses, Moses in Arabic. Next to me in is with me is the Messiah after Jesus is on earth. He will be buried with me in the future." That's how Muslims feel about Christianity. A lot of people say how there are no Christians in the Islamic world, and that's blindness. There are twenty percent Christians in Egypt. You know in Damascus, Syria, or you're in Tripoli, Libya, or you're in Tunis, the capital of Tunisia, or you're in Algiers, Algeria, or you're in Rabat, Morocco, or you're in Baghdad, Iraq, there are Christians everywhere. When Christians have a holiday, Muslims are happier than they are, why? Muslims celebrate religious holidays, religious Christians celebrate festivals. So Christmas is the happiest time of the year for Muslims. And as you know today in Palestine, many people think that Palestine is all Muslim, no, Fatah in Palestine, this so-called Palestinian resistance organization is all Christian. A lot of people don't realize that the Christians and the Muslims in Palestine are so closely united. Palestinian Christians don't eat pork. And when the Syrian SEC doesn't eat pork. Because Jesus was a Jew and that's what he observed. So a lot of times people who leave that land think that Christians and Muslims are enemies. What about the Lebanon war? What was the problem with the Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Shiites and Sunnis in Lebanon before Israel invaded Lebanon? None. They built the Paris of the East, Beirut. And after the invasion in the 70's, the country started fighting and it's still going on today. Then some people say the fighting is because Muslims are intolerant. Why are Muslims intolerant? The Christians have been there for over a thousand years. Let me ask you, Spain used to be a Muslim country, and today you go there and you see a mosque that's over 100 years old? When I was traveling in Barcelona, one of the Spanish tour guides said, "Ah, we're so tolerant, we have this church that's 1,000 years old, that church that's 850 years old, and this church that's 1,300 years old." That means a lot. And then there was a Jew from Croatia who said, "You stop it." And this Jew, knowing that I was a Muslim, said, "That church of yours has survived until now because the Muslims didn't tear it down. Let me ask you, do you have a mosque from 800 years ago?" Who's inclusive? Muslims. No churches were torn down in Spain for close to 800 years before or after. Why not? Why? Because he knew it was his religion. But today you can see on the internet as if Muslims are denouncing all civilizations of the world, and when they look at a civilization, they bite it to death, and they don't let any of them live. Do Muslims do such things? Some people say that the Bamiyan Buddhas were blown up by the Taliban. Let me tell you, this is a trick question. You have to understand one thing, the Taliban blew up the Bamiyan Buddhas, but when did the Afghans convert to Islam? Why didn't they blow it up for 1,000 years, and then all of a sudden they blow it up today? Was that an act of man or an act of Islam? If Islam wanted to bomb, it would have bombed Afghanistan when it conquered the country, but why did it leave it in place? You have to think about this. So often I meet people who ask the question, "You just say it's beautiful, but explain to me the Bamiyan Buddhas." We ask that question and he can't answer it. We tend to be in the age of free information, we get a lot of information. But the ability of the vast majority of people to distinguish information and to sort it out is not sufficient, and that creates a lot of misunderstandings and a lot of differences in understanding.